Hi Ellen, just a heads up that this is a public post so your comment is public. Do feel free to remove it if you don't want it to be picked up by search engines. Regarding your sharing here: I often say to clients, "Follow the wisdom of your nervous system." Sounds like you did - to good effect.
Hi Lynn, just a heads up that this is a public post so your comment is public. If you are a paid subscriber, I can put this question out to the community in a private chat and answer you there. I can also delete your comment here if you like (or you can). Let me know what works best for you. If you want me to comment publicly I can as well - the dynamics you are referencing would be viewed as 'covert', for example, versus 'overt' in regard to scapegoating.
Thank you so much for your kind concern Rebecca. And again - thank you for being a voice for those of us who have no one else who can understand. And Ellen I appreciate your affirmation.
If everyone doesn't want *everyone* to be included in family decision making, then it really isn't a "family," but just a political system with winners and losers. Realizing that makes it a lot easier to leave it all behind.
Hi! In my personal view, I don't see winners and losers in these situations, unfortunately, at least from my experience. Sometimes it's just really complex, too many layers.
Exactly. I think It's really like a clan, where rituals are fixed, critics only between the members of the clan. I think I could write a novel on it, only from my experience:/.
Also, if it's intergenerational trauma (I believe so in my experience), there are really very rigid roles needed (even when a family member dies, as you well mention), to keep the homeostasis, so it's not really an option, if you can't choose to do otherwise, I guess..
You are spot on. Did you already read my introductory book on FSA where I discuss these dysfunctional dynamics (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed)? I also think you would appreciate this video here: https://youtu.be/IfpqW3328HA
Thank you for another very insightful and validating article. Your work feels like a puzzle to me, it connects so many dots. There is much I would like to share about this, I will get back when I can subscribe to the private chat. One thing I would like to ask, often on sibling strangement I read about adult estrangement, but rarely about strangement in early years (early teens). Very good work, thank you!
Thank you, Mariana, I look forward to seeing you sometime in our private chat area. Do you mean when siblings become estranged from each other as teens or...?
The dynamics in my family were based in sibling rivalry and favoritism. While I was maltreated very young, I was the favored by our mother (guilt?) which made me a target of my siblings.
Of course it’s complicated. I was also the recipient of my father’s deep projective identification and rage from birth. As a young adult he told me I was “born without a soul.” He is enabled by my siblings though he has done great harm to our family with his sickness.
That smacks of narcissism or even malignant narcissism, which I know you already know, which would only exacerbate splitting and scapegoating abuse behaviors in such a family system.
Yes, this type of favoritism and 'splitting' of the sibling subsystem puts (in the sibling's mind) the 'favored' child in the 'Golden Child' role - without the supposed attendant 'benefits'.
Yes my mother did the splitting. She seemed to be aware our father was not safe or some other reason because I felt she wanted full possession of all of us. She always told me, “don’t tell your father…” every time she gave me permission or whatever.
My mother betrayed me at age six. Bruised my face and told me to tell my teachers a lie.
Then at the dinner table, she asked me if my teachers asked about my face and when I said yes, she said what did you tell them and I repeated the lie that she had told me to tell them and which I was proud of following her bidding. She screamed at me. “Why did you lie” this was in front of the whole family. I felt myself completely split in that moment.
Classic 'abuse cycle'. It doesn't just happen between spouses and romantic partners. It happens in families as well. Society needs to wake up to this fact and do more to protect children from these forms of 'invisible' abuse.
Oh, that is hideous, Kelly. I am so sorry this happened to you / the little girl you were. And here we are, busy healing, mending, and integrating what was split many moons ago - while helping others to do the same. Grateful to have met you here.
I didn’t know what was happening to me but an image of me on the ground in a fetal position and my entire family kicking me over and over again played like a tape in my mind. That image haunted me for many years until it stopped and i finally forgot about it. At 58 yrs old I read Rebecca’s book and everything made sense to me. I also remembered that horrible image of my family. When I doubt myself and think maybe it wasn’t so bad, i remember that image of being kicked by them and realized none of it was in my mind and it was that bad. We can do the best we can to heal and I believe I am healing.
Oh, that is a terrible and also terribly apt image for 'family mobbing', which I have a video on. I plan to do a Livestream on the theme of "Was it really that bad?" SO many FSA survivors ask themselves this. And the answer usually is "Yes" - and often it was worse than we like to think or acknowledge. Family mobbing video here: https://youtu.be/6gb_dDqWLiQ
Hi Ellen, just a heads up that this is a public post so your comment is public. Do feel free to remove it if you don't want it to be picked up by search engines. Regarding your sharing here: I often say to clients, "Follow the wisdom of your nervous system." Sounds like you did - to good effect.
That is the universe! X
Hi Lynn, just a heads up that this is a public post so your comment is public. If you are a paid subscriber, I can put this question out to the community in a private chat and answer you there. I can also delete your comment here if you like (or you can). Let me know what works best for you. If you want me to comment publicly I can as well - the dynamics you are referencing would be viewed as 'covert', for example, versus 'overt' in regard to scapegoating.
Thank you so much for your kind concern Rebecca. And again - thank you for being a voice for those of us who have no one else who can understand. And Ellen I appreciate your affirmation.
You’re very welcome, Lynn, so very glad you’re here!
If everyone doesn't want *everyone* to be included in family decision making, then it really isn't a "family," but just a political system with winners and losers. Realizing that makes it a lot easier to leave it all behind.
Brilliant!
Hi! In my personal view, I don't see winners and losers in these situations, unfortunately, at least from my experience. Sometimes it's just really complex, too many layers.
Agree.
A political system… and sometimes a ‘cult’ system (which has been validated via research on dysfunctional family systems).
Exactly. I think It's really like a clan, where rituals are fixed, critics only between the members of the clan. I think I could write a novel on it, only from my experience:/.
Also, if it's intergenerational trauma (I believe so in my experience), there are really very rigid roles needed (even when a family member dies, as you well mention), to keep the homeostasis, so it's not really an option, if you can't choose to do otherwise, I guess..
You are spot on. Did you already read my introductory book on FSA where I discuss these dysfunctional dynamics (Rejected, Shamed, and Blamed)? I also think you would appreciate this video here: https://youtu.be/IfpqW3328HA
I finally started reading! Will check the video, thank you for sharing.
Thank you for another very insightful and validating article. Your work feels like a puzzle to me, it connects so many dots. There is much I would like to share about this, I will get back when I can subscribe to the private chat. One thing I would like to ask, often on sibling strangement I read about adult estrangement, but rarely about strangement in early years (early teens). Very good work, thank you!
Thank you, Mariana, I look forward to seeing you sometime in our private chat area. Do you mean when siblings become estranged from each other as teens or...?
Yes, not as adults. (Sorry, I meant years, not ears)
The dynamics in my family were based in sibling rivalry and favoritism. While I was maltreated very young, I was the favored by our mother (guilt?) which made me a target of my siblings.
Of course it’s complicated. I was also the recipient of my father’s deep projective identification and rage from birth. As a young adult he told me I was “born without a soul.” He is enabled by my siblings though he has done great harm to our family with his sickness.
That smacks of narcissism or even malignant narcissism, which I know you already know, which would only exacerbate splitting and scapegoating abuse behaviors in such a family system.
Yes
Yes, this type of favoritism and 'splitting' of the sibling subsystem puts (in the sibling's mind) the 'favored' child in the 'Golden Child' role - without the supposed attendant 'benefits'.
Yes my mother did the splitting. She seemed to be aware our father was not safe or some other reason because I felt she wanted full possession of all of us. She always told me, “don’t tell your father…” every time she gave me permission or whatever.
My mother betrayed me at age six. Bruised my face and told me to tell my teachers a lie.
Then at the dinner table, she asked me if my teachers asked about my face and when I said yes, she said what did you tell them and I repeated the lie that she had told me to tell them and which I was proud of following her bidding. She screamed at me. “Why did you lie” this was in front of the whole family. I felt myself completely split in that moment.
And CD would physically abuse me then repent and spoil me.
*she
Classic 'abuse cycle'. It doesn't just happen between spouses and romantic partners. It happens in families as well. Society needs to wake up to this fact and do more to protect children from these forms of 'invisible' abuse.
Oh, that is hideous, Kelly. I am so sorry this happened to you / the little girl you were. And here we are, busy healing, mending, and integrating what was split many moons ago - while helping others to do the same. Grateful to have met you here.
I didn’t know what was happening to me but an image of me on the ground in a fetal position and my entire family kicking me over and over again played like a tape in my mind. That image haunted me for many years until it stopped and i finally forgot about it. At 58 yrs old I read Rebecca’s book and everything made sense to me. I also remembered that horrible image of my family. When I doubt myself and think maybe it wasn’t so bad, i remember that image of being kicked by them and realized none of it was in my mind and it was that bad. We can do the best we can to heal and I believe I am healing.
Oh, that is a terrible and also terribly apt image for 'family mobbing', which I have a video on. I plan to do a Livestream on the theme of "Was it really that bad?" SO many FSA survivors ask themselves this. And the answer usually is "Yes" - and often it was worse than we like to think or acknowledge. Family mobbing video here: https://youtu.be/6gb_dDqWLiQ