If anyone is interested, there's always the option of telling people you're an orphan. Then get to know individuals better to confirm if they are a safe person who can handle the real story.
For those and 12 step programs and recovery sharing no contact may well lead to misinterpretation that one is in resentment or else they would not have gone no contact. Contrary to that assumption a good thorough fourth step will often lead an FSA survivor to liberation and the radical acceptance needed to be able to successfully distance, and remove themselves from the abusive family dynamics. In fact, they have come to an acceptance of an injustice they cannot control fix or change and have been released from the delusion that the injustice had anything to do with them to begin with.
Critically important point, Kelly. This goes along with the need to assist 12 Step programs in becoming more 'trauma-informed'. I have not yet looked personally at this workbook but sharing it with you here in case you find it of interest for yourself or others whom your own work on this issue of addiction and family scapegoating touches: https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Steps-Workbook-Meditations-ps-Revised/dp/1623179327
While the terminology at the time of the writing was not trauma-informed it is my experience that the 12 steps, and process as laid out, does address trauma though without the same terminology and awareness we have access to today.
There is a passage in the 12x12 book that addresses trauma in recovery directly:
“In many instances, we shall find that, though the harm done others has not been great, the emotional harm we have done ourselves has. Very deep, sometimes quite forgotten, damaging emotional conflicts, persist below the level of consciousness. At the time of these occurrences, they may actually have given our emotions violent twists, which have since discolored our personalities and altered our lives for the worse.” P. 80 Twelve Steps and Teelve Traditions
That is exactly what happened to me. Prolonged the abuse and I got stuck for years longer. Ultimately, I had to go NC with my 12 step friends to heal after going NC with my abusive family.
After processing the situation, I realized my friends were stuck and very sick in their family system as well. I assume they are still in denial.
Kelly, I admire people who can make the 12 steps work for them. I tried AA, Al-Anon, ACOA. For me, it was very harmful.
I didn't like how they kept saying it wasn't a religious program yet would end the meetings with the Lord's Prayer or the Serenity Prayer...Eeesh
I was at a meeting in Alaska (been to some in Arizona and also Canada) when a lady started crying because her son died. She then proceeded to berate herself for being on the pity potty.
Couldn't even have a good day without hearing I'm having a pink cloud.
Nothing good came out of those meetings for me. I tried again and again to "fit in". Wow - just realized this is exactly what I did with my family. Like my family, AA insisted I was doing it wrong. They would never admit that maybe their program(s) were wrong for me. All it did was make my CPTSD symptoms worse and retraumatize me.
I had to do mental gymnastics to try and understand their program.
AA refuses to change with the times. They have made a God of Bill W. The big book written by Bill W is full of mistruths and dogma. If AA could admit this we would all be better off.
One lady was even told she wasn't sober because she was taking medication for depression. They do like to brag about how many people they have helped. However, they don't even consider the harm caused to many, many, many people who did not go back. There are millions!
To me it was like a cult. Our way is the only way.
So, word of caution to others - if it doesn't feel right try something else. And my all means, if it feels good, well keep coming back as they say - it works if you work it.
On the other hand, I don't have to do mental gymnastics to fit in here! I just do!
I hope this post doesn't offend you. I'm all about doing what is right for your healing journey. And by your comment, I can see it helps you.
Different things work for different people. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I can only share mine and do not speak for the program. Tradition 12 “Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.”
Luckily I had a mentor who taught me
the guiding principles, the 12 steps and traditions, should be my primary concern rather than the personalities of those in the rooms.
Unfortunately, many people only experience personalities and mistake them for the program which is embodied in the steps and traditions not the personalities in the rooms which vary greatly. The principles do protect personalities and do not dictate their behavior or beliefs, which makes it a diverse inclusive community.
I was born and raised in a cult. Therefore I am adverse to all organized religion and if AA were a cult it wouldn’t work for me. And just because it worked for me doesn’t mean it will work for you. But that doesn’t make it a cult. There may be cultish personalities or small cult like cliques as found everywhere but they don’t represent the program either.
It was suggested to me that I try the steps as an experiment and have my own individual experience with them. I did and it has worked so well for me they have become a way of life that continues to expand and enrich me.
As per the 11th step I explore other spiritual traditions and ways of living on an ongoing basis which adjunct and also enrich my life as have a variety of psychological models like Rebecca’s FSA, trauma based therapies, inner child work, Jung, Emmett Fox, and other great thinkers.
It sounds like you had a bad experience with AA and it wasn’t a good fit for you. I respect that and anyone in AA or out who tells you it’s the only way to sobriety is misled. It turns out it’s the best way for ME. (I’ve tried everything.)
I speak only for myself. That’s what I love about the 12 steps; I get to have my own experience and access a greater power that works for me individually.
I hesitate to share this as I really don’t speak for AA as a whole but I feel moved to share MY experience of the 12 steps and traditions. And my understanding of principles before personalities. The 12 step program in my experience seriously allows for diversity and democracy and for me, ongoing and expanding liberation.
“Losing one’s religion is not something one comes to voluntarily. It took getting sober in a 12-step program at thirty and a long time after that to peel the skin back.”
I have noticed that a tendency in survivors of narcissistic abuse to tell their stories over and over again, in order to feel like they are truly being seen, heard and believed. I have this tendency too and it's rooted in the fear that I will once again be mischaracterized, misunderstood, and blamed for the problem. Thank you for validating the importance of creating safe, empathic spaces where victims of scapegoating abuse can feel heard.
You're welcome, Claire. "Been there, done that" myself. I remember many years ago attempting to share with some transpersonal counseling colleagues from grad school what was going on with my mother-in-law (severe scapegoating that was in part fueled by my not being of the same culture / ethnicity as my then-husband). I spoke calmly, briefly, and simply imparted my truth, including that I felt angry and (appropriately) distressed about what was happening. I will never forget, one of them said to me (rather smugly): "I can tell that you are not yet fully healed." That was the last time I attempted to share my truth about the terribly distressing situation I was facing with anyone beyond a few very trusted (and old and established) friends.
Omg. The arrogance. Who responds to someone sharing their feelings in a vulnerable way by emotionally invalidating them with some spiritually bypassing statement?
Exactly. With an emphasis on the 'spiritual bypassing' part. Which I saw more than my fair share of while attending my transpersonally-oriented University (where I later served as Core Faculty). Speaking of which, I'll be writing an article on spiritual bypassing soon!
I don't really know anyone anymore who would even ask me about my family. There is the people I work with, but we don't typically talk about personal stuff except superficially. I guess I am lucky that this is one issue I don't really have but it's def helpful and empowering information in this article. Thank you Rebecca 😎
I think even if you were initially ejected from the family for setting boundaries that it's still a form of choosing to go no contact. They didn't abandon you because you did something wrong, they just wanted to keep abusing you and couldn't. If you choose boundaries over abuse and they can't handle the change in dynamics that's on them. Personally I've had a mix of both types of estrangement. Some people I cut off completely, others cut me off after I shut down some kind of blatantly abusive behavior. While there's a part of me that's been conditioned to accept blame for the silent treatment, the reality is even if they opened up communication again I wouldn't really want to go through that door. They've made it clear the only way we can have a relationship is if they can keep abusing me, that doesn't work for me, so even if they cut me off first it's really mutual. Or really it's still me choosing no contact because I'm also certain that if I were to reach out and grovel and apologize and let them know that I'm now ready to accept even worse abuse, they would let me back in as has been the result of many silent treatments of the past. But I'm really not willing to let them back into my life in any meaningful way. Even if they got therapy and appeared to change, I wouldn't trust them, I wouldn't want them around my husband or child. So was it really them ejecting me? No, I just got healthy and I could likely get back in by getting unhealthy again.
Your very insightful - and accurate - comment here reflects a video I did on why having 'healthy boundaries' can make FSA dynamics worse. Link here, if you are interested: https://youtu.be/gLptzBP_Arw
I do have a choice of who I share with and that is my POWER! I've learned the hard way that most people refuse to acknowledge the harm done by my family. But it's your family!
One blog post I read this week the author claimed.
Forgiveness is often seen as a universal cure for anger, resentment, and trauma. In reality, there is no universal cure. ( I agree) There are many reasons why survivors may not be capable or willing to forgive their offenders (Eeesh this really pushed my buttons).
Did you say not capable or unable to forgive? yup That's what she said. She did reply to my post to clarify but too late...damage done.
I only share my story with a few trusted people now. They don't shame me, they don't blame me, and certainly they never say I have to forgive. I trust this group - my tribe - you get it. I don't have to tell anyone anything.
If someone does try to pry...I tell the truth! I keep it short and intentionally change the subject if I don't feel comfortable. If I don't like the response...I end the conversation politely (sometimes not)and leave.
Wow...that's progress for me. Thank you everyone for sharing. This group is changing the trajectory of my recovery. Healing is possible...it is very, very hard work to look at the truth. Extremely painful and debilitating. Protect yourself by carefully choosing who you share with. If you are not comfortable with the response...listen to your heart. Or better yet, come here and share with people who "get it".
I think I saw this same article and had a similar response. I celebrate the power and strength that emanates from every word of your comment here. BTW, I wrote an article regarding why, as a trauma-informed therapist and coach, I invite clients to explore 'radical acceptance' versus 'forgiveness'. You can read it here, if interested (I'll likely republish it here on Substack soon so we can get another discussion thread going regarding this topic): https://www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
Thanks for responding. I did see your article about radical acceptance. The person I quoted as saying some of us are unable or unwilling to forgive was written by a trauma therapist who is also a national speaker. She claims many of her clients have indeed forgiven and feel better. I prefer your approach.
To be clear, she also stated that we don't need to forgive to heal. It's one of those things where I have to do mental gymnastic.
It's about looking at the ugly truth of it all and coming to terms with the reality of it. Radical acceptance that things will never change. I am a very forgiving person by the way! This family stuff is beyond forgiveness. I know I'm healing because I had a safe place to vent my anger which may sometimes have appeared like resentment.
There is a saying from the Far East that I often contemplate (and share with clients): "Do the clouds ask the sun for forgiveness for passing across its face?" What happened, happened. What was, was. What is, IS...
If anyone is interested, there's always the option of telling people you're an orphan. Then get to know individuals better to confirm if they are a safe person who can handle the real story.
Personaly, I do consider myself an orphan...
Many a celebrity went this route initially - including Marilyn Monroe.
Arrrgh accidentally deleted my comment!
For those and 12 step programs and recovery sharing no contact may well lead to misinterpretation that one is in resentment or else they would not have gone no contact. Contrary to that assumption a good thorough fourth step will often lead an FSA survivor to liberation and the radical acceptance needed to be able to successfully distance, and remove themselves from the abusive family dynamics. In fact, they have come to an acceptance of an injustice they cannot control fix or change and have been released from the delusion that the injustice had anything to do with them to begin with.
*for those in 12 step
Critically important point, Kelly. This goes along with the need to assist 12 Step programs in becoming more 'trauma-informed'. I have not yet looked personally at this workbook but sharing it with you here in case you find it of interest for yourself or others whom your own work on this issue of addiction and family scapegoating touches: https://www.amazon.com/Trauma-Steps-Workbook-Meditations-ps-Revised/dp/1623179327
Thanks Rebecca! So important.
While the terminology at the time of the writing was not trauma-informed it is my experience that the 12 steps, and process as laid out, does address trauma though without the same terminology and awareness we have access to today.
There is a passage in the 12x12 book that addresses trauma in recovery directly:
“In many instances, we shall find that, though the harm done others has not been great, the emotional harm we have done ourselves has. Very deep, sometimes quite forgotten, damaging emotional conflicts, persist below the level of consciousness. At the time of these occurrences, they may actually have given our emotions violent twists, which have since discolored our personalities and altered our lives for the worse.” P. 80 Twelve Steps and Teelve Traditions
Powerful.
That is exactly what happened to me. Prolonged the abuse and I got stuck for years longer. Ultimately, I had to go NC with my 12 step friends to heal after going NC with my abusive family.
After processing the situation, I realized my friends were stuck and very sick in their family system as well. I assume they are still in denial.
Yep. Sorry you had to experience that. Fortunately, our experience strength and hope can benefit others like us.
Kelly, I admire people who can make the 12 steps work for them. I tried AA, Al-Anon, ACOA. For me, it was very harmful.
I didn't like how they kept saying it wasn't a religious program yet would end the meetings with the Lord's Prayer or the Serenity Prayer...Eeesh
I was at a meeting in Alaska (been to some in Arizona and also Canada) when a lady started crying because her son died. She then proceeded to berate herself for being on the pity potty.
Couldn't even have a good day without hearing I'm having a pink cloud.
Nothing good came out of those meetings for me. I tried again and again to "fit in". Wow - just realized this is exactly what I did with my family. Like my family, AA insisted I was doing it wrong. They would never admit that maybe their program(s) were wrong for me. All it did was make my CPTSD symptoms worse and retraumatize me.
I had to do mental gymnastics to try and understand their program.
AA refuses to change with the times. They have made a God of Bill W. The big book written by Bill W is full of mistruths and dogma. If AA could admit this we would all be better off.
One lady was even told she wasn't sober because she was taking medication for depression. They do like to brag about how many people they have helped. However, they don't even consider the harm caused to many, many, many people who did not go back. There are millions!
To me it was like a cult. Our way is the only way.
So, word of caution to others - if it doesn't feel right try something else. And my all means, if it feels good, well keep coming back as they say - it works if you work it.
On the other hand, I don't have to do mental gymnastics to fit in here! I just do!
I hope this post doesn't offend you. I'm all about doing what is right for your healing journey. And by your comment, I can see it helps you.
Different things work for different people. I’m sorry you had a bad experience. I can only share mine and do not speak for the program. Tradition 12 “Anonymity is the spiritual foundation of all our Traditions, ever reminding us to place principles above personalities.”
Luckily I had a mentor who taught me
the guiding principles, the 12 steps and traditions, should be my primary concern rather than the personalities of those in the rooms.
Unfortunately, many people only experience personalities and mistake them for the program which is embodied in the steps and traditions not the personalities in the rooms which vary greatly. The principles do protect personalities and do not dictate their behavior or beliefs, which makes it a diverse inclusive community.
I was born and raised in a cult. Therefore I am adverse to all organized religion and if AA were a cult it wouldn’t work for me. And just because it worked for me doesn’t mean it will work for you. But that doesn’t make it a cult. There may be cultish personalities or small cult like cliques as found everywhere but they don’t represent the program either.
It was suggested to me that I try the steps as an experiment and have my own individual experience with them. I did and it has worked so well for me they have become a way of life that continues to expand and enrich me.
As per the 11th step I explore other spiritual traditions and ways of living on an ongoing basis which adjunct and also enrich my life as have a variety of psychological models like Rebecca’s FSA, trauma based therapies, inner child work, Jung, Emmett Fox, and other great thinkers.
It sounds like you had a bad experience with AA and it wasn’t a good fit for you. I respect that and anyone in AA or out who tells you it’s the only way to sobriety is misled. It turns out it’s the best way for ME. (I’ve tried everything.)
I speak only for myself. That’s what I love about the 12 steps; I get to have my own experience and access a greater power that works for me individually.
I hesitate to share this as I really don’t speak for AA as a whole but I feel moved to share MY experience of the 12 steps and traditions. And my understanding of principles before personalities. The 12 step program in my experience seriously allows for diversity and democracy and for me, ongoing and expanding liberation.
You might enjoy this post which somewhat addresses religion:
https://open.substack.com/pub/thompsonk/p/how-to-skin-a-gorilla?r=1fhxt&utm_medium=ios
“Losing one’s religion is not something one comes to voluntarily. It took getting sober in a 12-step program at thirty and a long time after that to peel the skin back.”
I have noticed that a tendency in survivors of narcissistic abuse to tell their stories over and over again, in order to feel like they are truly being seen, heard and believed. I have this tendency too and it's rooted in the fear that I will once again be mischaracterized, misunderstood, and blamed for the problem. Thank you for validating the importance of creating safe, empathic spaces where victims of scapegoating abuse can feel heard.
You're welcome, Claire. "Been there, done that" myself. I remember many years ago attempting to share with some transpersonal counseling colleagues from grad school what was going on with my mother-in-law (severe scapegoating that was in part fueled by my not being of the same culture / ethnicity as my then-husband). I spoke calmly, briefly, and simply imparted my truth, including that I felt angry and (appropriately) distressed about what was happening. I will never forget, one of them said to me (rather smugly): "I can tell that you are not yet fully healed." That was the last time I attempted to share my truth about the terribly distressing situation I was facing with anyone beyond a few very trusted (and old and established) friends.
Omg. The arrogance. Who responds to someone sharing their feelings in a vulnerable way by emotionally invalidating them with some spiritually bypassing statement?
Exactly. With an emphasis on the 'spiritual bypassing' part. Which I saw more than my fair share of while attending my transpersonally-oriented University (where I later served as Core Faculty). Speaking of which, I'll be writing an article on spiritual bypassing soon!
Can’t wait! It’s a popular pastime here in LA.
I can only imagine...(!)
I don't really know anyone anymore who would even ask me about my family. There is the people I work with, but we don't typically talk about personal stuff except superficially. I guess I am lucky that this is one issue I don't really have but it's def helpful and empowering information in this article. Thank you Rebecca 😎
You're welcome, Sef. BTW, check your email where we had past exchanges - Sent you something you'll want to see and respond to (I hope!)
Appreciate the restack, Marla, thanks.
I think even if you were initially ejected from the family for setting boundaries that it's still a form of choosing to go no contact. They didn't abandon you because you did something wrong, they just wanted to keep abusing you and couldn't. If you choose boundaries over abuse and they can't handle the change in dynamics that's on them. Personally I've had a mix of both types of estrangement. Some people I cut off completely, others cut me off after I shut down some kind of blatantly abusive behavior. While there's a part of me that's been conditioned to accept blame for the silent treatment, the reality is even if they opened up communication again I wouldn't really want to go through that door. They've made it clear the only way we can have a relationship is if they can keep abusing me, that doesn't work for me, so even if they cut me off first it's really mutual. Or really it's still me choosing no contact because I'm also certain that if I were to reach out and grovel and apologize and let them know that I'm now ready to accept even worse abuse, they would let me back in as has been the result of many silent treatments of the past. But I'm really not willing to let them back into my life in any meaningful way. Even if they got therapy and appeared to change, I wouldn't trust them, I wouldn't want them around my husband or child. So was it really them ejecting me? No, I just got healthy and I could likely get back in by getting unhealthy again.
Your very insightful - and accurate - comment here reflects a video I did on why having 'healthy boundaries' can make FSA dynamics worse. Link here, if you are interested: https://youtu.be/gLptzBP_Arw
I do have a choice of who I share with and that is my POWER! I've learned the hard way that most people refuse to acknowledge the harm done by my family. But it's your family!
One blog post I read this week the author claimed.
Forgiveness is often seen as a universal cure for anger, resentment, and trauma. In reality, there is no universal cure. ( I agree) There are many reasons why survivors may not be capable or willing to forgive their offenders (Eeesh this really pushed my buttons).
Did you say not capable or unable to forgive? yup That's what she said. She did reply to my post to clarify but too late...damage done.
I only share my story with a few trusted people now. They don't shame me, they don't blame me, and certainly they never say I have to forgive. I trust this group - my tribe - you get it. I don't have to tell anyone anything.
If someone does try to pry...I tell the truth! I keep it short and intentionally change the subject if I don't feel comfortable. If I don't like the response...I end the conversation politely (sometimes not)and leave.
Wow...that's progress for me. Thank you everyone for sharing. This group is changing the trajectory of my recovery. Healing is possible...it is very, very hard work to look at the truth. Extremely painful and debilitating. Protect yourself by carefully choosing who you share with. If you are not comfortable with the response...listen to your heart. Or better yet, come here and share with people who "get it".
I think I saw this same article and had a similar response. I celebrate the power and strength that emanates from every word of your comment here. BTW, I wrote an article regarding why, as a trauma-informed therapist and coach, I invite clients to explore 'radical acceptance' versus 'forgiveness'. You can read it here, if interested (I'll likely republish it here on Substack soon so we can get another discussion thread going regarding this topic): https://www.scapegoatrecovery.com/2023/11/05/radical-acceptance-and-scapegoat-recovery-the-power-of-accepting-what-is/
Hi Rebecca,
Thanks for responding. I did see your article about radical acceptance. The person I quoted as saying some of us are unable or unwilling to forgive was written by a trauma therapist who is also a national speaker. She claims many of her clients have indeed forgiven and feel better. I prefer your approach.
To be clear, she also stated that we don't need to forgive to heal. It's one of those things where I have to do mental gymnastic.
It's about looking at the ugly truth of it all and coming to terms with the reality of it. Radical acceptance that things will never change. I am a very forgiving person by the way! This family stuff is beyond forgiveness. I know I'm healing because I had a safe place to vent my anger which may sometimes have appeared like resentment.
The forgiveness stuff is for the little stuff.
There is a saying from the Far East that I often contemplate (and share with clients): "Do the clouds ask the sun for forgiveness for passing across its face?" What happened, happened. What was, was. What is, IS...